Supportable argument about a work of fiction

first assignment is a discusion,,,, you will need to do a discussion and a responese on two classmates. i will send you the comment on the two classmates and you will need to responed to them.which should be at least one well-developed paragraph long, not just agreeing with them

Discussion 1

Literary Argument

Purpose: To make a debatable, supportable argument about a work of fiction.

Based on the subjects of the two stories for this week, and the way they are categorized in the textbook’s Table of Contents, it is quite reasonable to interpret “Hills Like White Elephants” and “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love” as stories about love. What might be more of a challenge is to argue why these stories are about hate. Choosing to take issue with how the textbook identifies these stories would present one opportunity for making an argument about these texts; however, there are many more.

You’ve been learning about various elements of literature, all of which can become the subject of an argument about a text. For example, you can make an argument for why Hemingway and Carver chose the characters they did and what their characterization choices mean for their stories. You could also make an argument about what the central conflict in each story shows about the theme, as you did in the Week 3 Discussion. Another option might be to argue how the setting of a story impacts the characters and theme(s). You could examine the relationships between characters and argue for how best to interpret them. The possibilities for literary arguments are many.

That said, you cannot create arguments out of thin air. There must be textual evidence to support the claim(s) you make about a work of fiction. Evidence existence in the words used throughout the story, whether it be in descriptions or dialogue. Consider what in the story led you to make the conclusion you made. Is there ample evidence to support your argument, or are you drawing an unreasonable conclusion from just one word in the text? (I’ll pause here to say that sometimes, one word *IS* enough evidence, depending upon the argument). All in all, you need to make sure there are specific moments in the text you can point to for supporting evidence.

WRITING PROMPT: With all of this in mind, make a specific argument about ONE of the two stories above. You can draw ideas from examples in this post or previous discussion assignments, but the more original and unique the argument, the better. Your argument should demonstrate critical thinking about the story, and you should use paraphrases and direct quotations, along with in-text citations, to support your claims.

*Do not use any outside research for this discussion; your analysis should be completely original.*

Your initial response to the discussion question, which should be several well-developed paragraphs long, is due by Friday, September 11th, at 11:59 p.m.

The reply to someone else, which should be at least one well-developed paragraph long, is due by Sunday, September 13th, at 11:59 p.m. If a classmate already has two replies, please reply to someone else. If you need a reminder of the grading standards, please see the rubric by clicking the three vertical dots in the upper righthand corner of this assignment.

below is the rubric for the reply for the two classmates

Criteria Ratings Pts
Development of Response 5 pts

Response is at least two well-developed paragraphs, with specific examples.

4 pts

Response is at least two paragraphs, though it might need additional development to support some points.

3 pts

Response is one well-developed paragraph or response fails to bring in sufficient evidence to support its points.

2 pts

Response is brief, with little explanation or evidence.

1 pts

There is no response or it was posted after Sunday.

/ 5 pts
Development of Reply

5 pts

Reply is at least one very well developed paragraph, with a central point and specific evidence.

4 pts

Reply is at least one well-developed paragraph, with some evidence presented for a central point but not enough to fully explain or prove the claims.

3 pts

Reply is one paragraph or less. There is a central point, but the evidence for it is lacking or is in generalities.

2 pts

Reply is less than one paragraph or is composed of claims with no specific evidence.

1 pts

There is no reply or it was posted after Sunday.

/ 5 pts
Accuracy of Response

5 pts

All statements made are accurate for the literary work and the class concepts. Literary terminology is used correctly. The response directly addresses the discussion question.

4 pts

The response is acccurate for the literary work with perhaps one small misunderstanding. It uses a class concept in a slighty incorrect way. It does not use literary terminology completely correctly. Everything in the response is relevant to the discussion question.

3 pts

Some statements made are incorrect for the literary work or misapply the literary concepts, showing a misunderstanding of these. Literary terminology is used incorrectly or is not used when appropriate. Parts of the response don’t address the discussion question or parts of the discussion question were left out.

2 pts

Response is off the topic or makes inaccurate statements about the literary work.

1 pts

There is no response or it was posted after Sunday.

/ 5 pts
Originality of Reply

5 pts

The reply brings in perceptive comments that advance the class discussion in new ways, such as by noting alternative interpretations or new evidence.

4 pts

Reply brings in new ideas that advance the class discussion but are not strikingly original.

3 pts

Reply brings in new views but does not connect this well with the ideas in the original response it replies to. Reply might focus primarily on praising the original post or agreeing by simply substituting new words for the original concepts.

2 pts

Reply praises the original or agrees with it without bringing in new perceptions that advance the class understanding.

1 pts

There is no reply or it was posted after Sunday.

/ 5 pts
Writing Correctness

5 pts

There are no distracting errors.

4 pts

There are a few noticeable errors, but these don’t impede the clarity or distract from the content.

3 pts

The postings are understandable, but there are significant errors or many minor errors, thus taking attention away from the content.

2 pts

The errors in the paper make it hard to read.

1 pts

The errors in the postings make it impossible to figure out some of the claims.

/ 5 pts
Total Points: 0

reply to the classmates i will post them below

1st classmate-

I found the short story “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love” by Raymond Carver to be quite interesting as the story is about love only on its surface. I would argue that the more pressing concern and conflict of the story is the internal conflict had by the narrator’s friend Mel and how that is manifested. The story starts with a group of four friends chatting over a bottle of gin in the light of the afternoon Sun when “we somehow got on the subject of love” (Carver 779). Mel begins to discuss love in a very confident manner, professing that “real love was nothing less than spiritual,” (Carver 779) and denouncing the feeling that his wife Terri’s ex-husband Ed had for her as something other than love. He even states that he will give an example of what real love is.

However, after this proclamation: “He poured more gin into his glass. He added an ice cube and a sliver of lime. We waited and sipped our drinks” (Carver 783), and Mel, rather than providing his example of real love, does just the opposite and questions whether he and the other three know anything about love at all! Mel does this by speaking of his hatred of his ex-wife, who he used to love. Mel becomes increasingly irritable and unhinged after this point, beginning to swear more frequently and insulting his wife Terri. The alcohol and sunlight serve as symbols of this decline, as the more he drinks the worse he becomes, and the worse he becomes the more the sunlight fades from the room: “The light was draining out of the room, going back through the window where it had come from” (Carver 787). The fading of the light could also be represented as darkness which creates uncertainty and a lack of clarity, which could connect to Mel’s loss of confidence about love.

It seems that the more he drinks, where alcohol is known to loosen inhibitions, the more he reveals his insecurities and struggles with love, whereas he seemed so steadfast before. I argue that the real conflict of the story is the internal conflict of Mel, where on the one hand he cannot accept that Ed’s feelings for Terri were truly of love, yet on the other hand cannot reconcile this position with the hatred he feels for his ex-wife who he once loved. Does this show that love and hate are not so opposed, that they are really two sides of the same coin? Unfortunately, Mel does not come to this conclusion; the story ends with Mel pouring the rest of his gin onto the table and the room enveloping with darkness, as opposed to the beginning of the story when “Sunlight filled the kitchen from the big window behind the sink” (Carver 779), representing Mel’s completed descent into his own chaos. Taken cumulatively, I believe there is solid textual evidence to infer the truth of my thesis.

Works Cited

Carver, Raymond. “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love.” Literature: The Human Experience, by Richard Abcarian et al., Thirteenth ed., Bedford/St. Martins, Boston, MA, 2019, pp. 779–788.

2nd classmate-

“Hills Like White Elephants” is a short story, written by Ernest Hemingway. This story is about a couple who are waiting at a train station. The couple seem to be enjoying drinks well waiting to be picked up by their train to Madrid. During this they are talking about an operation, which is never described. I believe that the woman really does not want to have the operation, but the man does. Thinking about this, the operation could be an abortion.

The way that the couple is talking about the operation makes it seem that the woman, Jig, does not want to have it, but the unnamed man wants her to. “I’ll go with you and I’ll stay with you all the time” (Hemingway 230), the unnamed man tells Jig. He is trying to make her feel comfortable so she is not scared to get the operation done. This shows that he is being supportive about it. Jig is asking a lot of questions “Then what will we do afterward?” (Hemingway 230), and “What makes you think so?” (Hemingway 230). This shows that Jig is very unsure about the operation. Asking a lot of questions shows Jig seems to be very anxious and uncomfortable. Jig also says “Then I’ll do it. Because I don’t care about me” (Hemingway 230). This sounds like she is being forced to, she just wants to do it for him. Jig does not really want to do it, she will do it because he wants her to. As the conversation proceeds, Jig seems to gbe getting annoyed and angry. Jig says “Would you please… stop talking?” (Hemingway 232). She really would rather not talk about the operation. She does not want to even think about it. Breaking these quotes apart helps to understand how Jig does not want the operation, but the man does.

The way that the operation is talked about could mean that it is an abortion. “It’s really an awfully simple operation…It’s not really an operation at all” (Hemingway 230), says the unnamed man. The unnamed man is implying that the operation is so easy, that it barely passes as being an operation. An abortion procedure takes about 5-10 minutes and is fairly simple in terms of being an operation. “They just let the air in…” (Hemingway 230), the unnamed man goes on to tell Jig. He could be implying that the doctors will be able to clear out whatever is going on to let the air back in. This can mean that the baby will be removed and the uterus will return to its normal state, with nothing inside. “I’ve known lots of people that have done it” (Hemingway 230), the man tells Jig. He is telling her that the procedure is very common. Abortions are a very common procedure as many of women have at least have one over their lifetime. The unnamed man says “It’s ours” (Hemingway 230), and Jig replies “And once they take it away, you never get it back” (Hemingway 230). This quote sounds like they are talking about a baby. The man is saying that the baby is their baby, and the women said once they take away the baby, they won’t have it anymore. Breaking these quotes apart help to make sense that the operation they are talking about is an abortion.

2nd assignment is below

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